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I've mentioned to my family, friends, Diplomacy hobbyists & colleagues about myself starting to run with the view to complete a marathon. As I'm sure you've gathered some of them got into the good ‘ole fashion banter & long may that continue. In addition to that some of the stuff said by others is very worthwhile & with their permission I’ve copy/paste some of the e-mails. In some cases there were a number of replies between us & those are also used.

I was aware that by using the same colour & face that you are currently reading, many might get confused as to who wrote it. The alterations are:

Dublin Marathon is an excellent event, the atmosphere is superb, and the scenery throughout the course is certainly worth the trip on its own, let alone the thought of running those 26.22 miles :-)

The course is not as flat as London Marathon, but there are not many that are. The undulations are mainly quite small, but it is worth saving some energy for the miles after 15 as there are some hills here that you need to be prepared for.

Paul Preston.

congratulations for giving up smoking and starting to do some running. I quit smoking last year and I know how it feels. Running a marathon is my aim, too, but I'm all the time distracted by too much work and constant problems with my knees and my back!

Take it easy and try to relax from time to time!

Good luck,

Andreas Savelsbergh

Go for it, Ally!

I'll keep an eye out for you as you pass those 'Flora' posts

Cheers - Kester Bearne

Speaking as one who hasn't done any exercise since giving up football 12 months ago I can only applaud you and hope you continue in your goal. It can only be for your betterment.

I have never smoked so cannot appreciate the full battle you are going through but the experience of some friends tells me the weight thing is usually temporary and your running will obviously negate it.

So best of luck with your marathon.

I regret to say that I have only just read your life story on the dip site and was amazed to say the least.

I've only looked before at the picture of you and your son and telling of your hobbies.

Thanks

for your work on the site as a contributor and GM

Andy Cochrane

Your mad! :-))))

Good luck mate both with the giving up smoking and the running but don't kill yourself !

Andy Scott

Way to go Ally. I’ll be 43 on May 8th. 4 years ago I was 215 lbs. on a 6’1” frame and in poor shape. So I started bicycling to work every day. 16k each way. That was good from April til October, but Nova Scotia winters are too damn cold for cycling. So I took up Taekwon-do. I’m now down to 195 lbs, in great shape and about a year away from getting a black belt. Saturday night I went to a reunion of my old rugby team and some of the guys said if I had been this fit when I played I would have made it into the super league! I’m competing in the Provincial Taekwon-do tournament on the 20th of May and running a 10k race on the 21st. Just goes to show, you’re never too old!

Cheers

Bruce McElhinney

Well if it wasn't for 4 days we would be twins mind you I've heard of twins being born on different days so perhaps we are twins. :-)

Thankfully Britain isn't bad in winter compared to your country. Oddly enough late Dec to Feb we perhaps had the coldest winter for a long time. Today is a Bank Holiday, it's chilly & raining but it best for running.

Your comments are right in the sense that we aren't that old by looking at what you're up to on the 20th & 21st. Do very well in those two events.

BTW soon I'm going to add to ALB & GSB my training, etc, plus other things. I would like to add your comments on the site to again prove to others what you have done & what I'm starting to do. Let me know if that's Ok by you.

Take Care

Ally

Just giving you an update on my running and Tae kwon-do weekend. In the Tae kwon-do tournament, I lost in the first round of patterns, so I didn’t get to the medal round. In sparring, I won a silver, losing to a 28 year old in the final.

In the 10k run , I finished in 50’:21’’, placing 139th out of 844 in the race. A photo of my finish can be seen at https://www.marasport.ca/prot-bin/client.pl?package_selection_in/19601. I’m faltering at this point because I’m fighting the urge to throw-up. I’m planning to do at least two more runs this year and I’d like to try a triathlon. You can put any of my info on your website if you desire. If I can inspire anyone else to get into shape, I will be happy.

A shame about the Tae Kwon-Do tournament however a silver in sparring is VERY good.

As for a pix of yourself I've clicked on that link & end up with a French page. I clicked on www.marasport.ca which is the start of that link & then go to English. In short I can't see a pix of yourself on that linked page you wrote.

OK Allie, go to www.marasport.ca, click on English, then Halifax Bluenose, get photos for this event. It will then ask for a bib number. Mine is 4448. Good luck

I think you would have a great time if you came over to Dublin for the marathon here.
But I would not recommend running it before you were ready.
The extra €20 in later registration is more like €50 saved if you can't finish the race. you don't want that.

You are working hard and deserve to give yourself the best chance possible.

I do strongly recommend Dublin, I'll see if I can get Donogh out to cheer for you as well, but that may be difficult given that we are both likely to be playing a game up in Clontarf castle.

He usually runs large particpation games at cons now, last year it was Gettysburg.

Brian O'Farrell

Saw the thread on the message board - it sounds familiar. I did almost no exercise from leaving school until my early thirties and then decided to run a marathon (although the first one was a rather slow and painful experience). Sadly, the arrival of children and increasingly insane working hours have taken their toll on running and other activities and I was unable to train for one last season. I'm hoping to do the Macau marathon in December (however slowly) - it's a great feeling of accomplishment when you finish.

I have not done London (one day…..) but understand from friends who have done it that the entries close off months in advance and are then balloted. Also, I understand you can guarantee a place if you run for a charity (not sure how much you have to raise). I'm happy to contribute and will try and work out how to get the money to you without being stuck with the usual extortionate bank fees.

Good luck with the training.

Cheers
Simon Berry

I've been reading the London Marathon site every evening & have read the bit about a ballot for those asking to be included.

As for the charities, I've got two that I wish to raise money for. Sadly they aren't listed in the charities that I might be able to run for if the ballot goes against me. If that happens I'll be thinking of applying to other marathons as opposed to the other. Either way, long time before that happens.

This week things didn't work out in my favour. Last Friday (5th May) Graeme (my son) & I ran for 6 miles. Legs were sore but Ok & on the Sat we went swimming. Nothing massive but a few lengths. On Sun I ran just under 8 miles. It was raining & all seemed fine. Sadly not quite the case. My nipples had blisters & my arms became raw. My legs felt fine but the next day my left knee had a soreness but not inside the knee just the outer side.

I decided to not run till all seemed fine & on Thu I decided to run for about 3 miles. That didn't quite work either. I did 1 mile, then walked for 1 mile & then ran for 1 mile.

Graeme did say to me last week that perhaps I ran for too long a distance as my body wouldn't be right just yet. Well Sat I'll try & run 3 miles & see if legs, etc, are fine.

Sounds familiar.

The chafing on the nipples, arms and, for many people, the inside of the thighs is a problem, particularly in hotter weather and as your distance gets longer. Some people use either Bodyglide or, for the nipples, sticking plaster. I can't find Bodyglide in Hong Kong and pulling off the plaster typically resulted in pulling out chest hairs so I resorted to Vaseline which works fine.

You may want to also have a look at http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,,s6-0-0-0-0,00.html which has a lot of useful information about training, nutrition and injury prevention. I had a lot of problems with knees and shins when I started running (and still do to some extent). I learned the hard way that you have to build up slowly and remember to warm up and cool down and do some gentle stretching after the exercise. I ended up doing three days a week of running, two days of cross training (bike, weights or swimming) and two days of nothing. Of the running days, I built one up to be a long run of 30+km and kept the other two much shorter (10-15 km at peak). It didn't make me a fast runner but it got me around the course without any problems. If your marathon is 11 months away (April), you have plenty of time to build up the distance. Although I am no expert, I would guess that Graeme is right and you may be trying to do too much to soon. The typical marathon training programme for beginners runs for 16 weeks and assumes that you are reasonably comfortable doing 20-25 miles a week at the start of the programme. In that context, if you are running in April, you have until October/November to build up to that sort of weekly distance - plenty of time.

With the knee problem, you may want to think about the type of running shoes you are using. Different people have different strike patterns (mid foot, heel and, less commonly, forefoot) and pronation (over, under and neutral). Different types of shoes are designed for different running motions (and also for runners of differing body weights). The right type of running shoes can make a lot of difference to injuries in the knees, shins (tendons) and feet. Lastly, running shoes are only good for a certain number of miles before the cushioning deteriorates to the point where injuries are much more likely. If you are not sure, check out either a running store - some of them have people who are familiar with these issues and can help identify which type of shoe is right for you - or a physio.

Another good injury prevention/run recovery tip that I picked up is to put cold water on your legs (a few minutes in the shower or with the garden hose) as soon as possible after running - apparently it helps breaks down the lactate acid that builds up the the muscles and reduces the amount of stiffness or tiredness in the muscles the next day. Reduced swelling around the joints and in the tendons is an added benefit. Some of the really serious runners sit in a bath full of ice water after running.

All this is getting me motivated

Cheers

I've Bcc a good number of you & used Bcc to keep your e-mail address secretive.

Perhaps being like a kid with a new toy I've been looking at a number of marathons sites & looking to find out their next race day.

The reason for doing that is my main worry & that is that after doing all this training the London Marathon's ballot might not pull out my name & that only leaves me getting in on behalf of certain charities. The problem with the last one is that I do have a couple of other charities which I wish to donate money to & those aren't listed on the site.

As for the marathon sites I looked at is; Amsterdam, Bungay (it's in Suffolk which is the county I live in), Edinburgh, Snowdonia & Dublin.

Bungay was ran on 2nd April, Edinburgh on 11th June with their ballot closed & to close for me, Snowdonia on the 29th October, Dublin on the & Amsterdam on the 15th October.

The biggest laugh is the one shown in the Amsterdam Marathon. There is a 6 hr time limit & for those that are still running & will not finish in the 6 hrs there is a sag wagon for them to board. Today I ran for 12 miles & it took 3 hrs 37 mins therefore if I'm off to Amsterdam I might as well get on the sag wagon before the race. :-) BTW I don't know what sag means but I'm sure we can all gather the wagon.

Snowdonia is a great place however even though I do train on the roads near my house & there are hills here, Snowdonia is full of mountains & that strongly suggests that my training hasn't been going on for long enough for me to cope with that marathon. Perhaps in the future.

As for Dublin, there is no time limit & no ballots. I was unsure of the race being on a Monday so I asked a Diplomacy colleague who comes from Eire & he said that day is a Bank Holiday.

I asked Sally if she would like to go for a long weekend in Dublin, etc, & she said 'yes'. Funnily enough she said she would rather go & watch it in Dublin than London. The reason behind that is not that she was born in London but her fear of crime in that city. To me it's just full of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs & Hammers fans. :-)

So currently I'm looking to run in the Dublin Marathon (30th October) however I'm aware that the time between now & then is 21 weeks & the training programmes I've read is quite intense. In case you're wondering, no I'm not making up possible excuses just simply stating that I know my training has only just started & that might not be long enough for me to finish a marathon. What I'm doing is waiting to see if my training is alright & if it is, then register. BTW the latest I can register is 9th Oct however doing it then costs 70 Euros (c£47.50) whereas before 1st August it's 50 Euros (c£35).

What I'll soon be doing is add a few pages on ALB & GSB & on that there will be something like a diary of my training, etc.

I'm not an expert but I'll chip in with my $0.02 worth.

If you have a long run of 12 miles in about 3.5 hours at this stage, Dublin in 21 weeks sounds like a very big ask and carries with it an increased risk of injury as you build up both your long run and your total weekly miles. If you are aiming to peak at a long run of 20 miles about three weeks before the marathon, you have to add an average of about half a mile a week to the long run every week. This is doable, but leaves little scope for minor injuries, illness or other disruptions. When I am trying to build distance on my long runs, I typically add 2 km to the previous distance and do that for two weeks, step back and do a shorter run in the third week and then increase again the following week. One of my friends who runs sub three hour marathons keeps telling me that rest and recovery are the two most important parts of his training.

I would not be too concerned about your pace at this point. To go from not running at all to doing 12 miles in the space of about two months (?) is already a big jump. When I did my first marathon, my longest training run was about 34 km and took about 4.5 hours which left me quite worried about the 5 hour time limit. I ended up finishing in 4:29 (after several involuntary walking breaks over the last 10km). Most people find that they do better in races than in training.

I'm assuming that you are doing a few shorter runs as well as the long one. You might want to take one of the shorter runs and progressively build up the pace on the middle section of that run to something like what you would want to average for your target marathon time or slightly quicker. This will help get your body used to running at the right speed. Example: on a 4 mile run do the first 2 miles slowly, the 3rd mile at a quicker pace and the last mile at the slower pace. You may also want to think about doing one or two shorter races ahead of the marathon. These will give you a good indication of how you are doing (as well as being good fun in their own right).

You still have about two months between now and the lower cost entry deadline so there is no need to make a decision yet.

There are other European marathons around April: Paris and Rotterdam are both regarded as flat easy courses.

I have not done any of the marathons you mention. In terms of picking a race, you may want to trawl through the archives on runners world for race reports. A couple of things to watch out for. You probably do not want to pick a marathon that has a very small field otherwise you may end up spending the last couple of hours running on your own - it always seems mentally easier to run with other people around you. Also, when you read the race reports, check for any references to water stations running out for the slower runners - that has been a problem in some races in Asia.

Good luck.

I'm not an expert but I'll chip in with my $0.02 worth.

Your 2 cents is worth more to me than you think but perhaps I shouldn't have written that or you might be asking for me to pay you the 2 cents. :-)
No but I might ask that you do not allocate me Austria in my next game ;-) (if there is one - for the last 18 months or so work has been so manic I have struggled to find the time to indulge in diplomacy correspondence to the standard I would like - a little bit depressing..... Incidentally, we still need to work out how to get the sponsorship money to you.

A couple of weeks ago I bought a book called Running for Peak Performance written by Frank Shorter (he won '72 Olympic gold. BTW that was in Munich & the same Olympics that had the PLO kidnap & kill a number of Israeli athletes).

In that book together with the site you mentioned, Runner's World, there is a training programme. The book only does for 12 weeks but does say that for beginners you use parts of the other programmes, like 10Km or 1/2 marathon or both. The site however does 16 weeks & I've attached it.
You ay want to check the assumption they make about people signing up for a 16 week program - I have seen some that assume a certain level of current running activity at the start.

Regarding my pace, I'm not too bothered however thankfully I did read time limits on certain marathons, e.g. Amsterdam. If I'm slow, who cares? Not me. I liked a title of an article which was be a tortoise not a hare.
Agree 100% - for most of the challenge is getting around the course.

The problem you said is the main worry I have & that is injury. I'm sure I'm no different to others but perhaps my main concern is that where I live the fields are used by tractors & therefore divots might cause a swollen ankle. Due to that I'm running on tarmac & it's said the only worse one is concrete. Thankfully I found Sudbury Joggers & will go & have a look next Wed.
I deal with this by doing some of my runs in doors on a treadmill (boring!), some on trails and some on roads.

Regarding knees & coming from 12 miles yesterday both are slightly sore (slightly means I can walk on them & is not painful but is there) but I'm not sure if the soreness comes from the top of the fibula or a muscle in that area.
A certain amount of stiffness and soreness is usual (at least for me and most of the runners I know). Muscle stiffness and minor swelling of tendons and joints can be helped by cold water (shower, bath, garden hose), doing a bit of walking around after the run, gentle stretching and eating some protein/rehydrating properly within an hour of exercise. Also, gentle exercise (not necessarily a run - a swim, walk or bike ride for 20-30 minutes will also help. If there is a problem of a more serious nature then the remedy is to see a doctor.

As for possibly doing a wee race, Richard Hucknall did suggest doing the 1/2 marathon. (Granted I did one 20+ years ago & also a 10 mile one). Only down side is that my motivation is for a full marathon & perhaps me running 12 miles yesterday, then what benefits will come from running in one?
I sent an e-mail to you and Carl on this one.

You mentioned the comment that I should roughly know how I feel by 1st August (cost being 50 Euros) but Brian O'Farrell said something that me being a Scot I should have thought of. If I wait until 9th Oct, I will know if I can do it & if so, 70 Euros which is an extra 20 extra Euros but if I can't run it, I've saved 50 Euros.
Sounds logical - by the 9th October you should have done your last long run and started tapering.

One thing you wrote about was some Asian marathons running out of water at their stations . On BBC it did say that water stations were not overly visible & some runners would see them.
A lot of runners carry a drink bottle or a fuel belt (sever small drink bottles) with them.

I had a quick look at the Paris one & if I'm right it asks for a medical certificate. Is that common with other ones?
Not as far as I am aware. If you have not run for a while a physical check up is recommended before starting a running program anyway. Two people had heart attacks in the HK marathon back in Feb this year. One died and the other suffered permanent brain damage.

I had a look at the training plan. With the usual caveats about not being an expert, it looks like a sensible build up with plenty of rest/cross training days designed to minimise the risks of burn out and injury.

The longest long run is only 14 miles. Most programs recommend a long run of 20 miles (or at least 18 miles) about 3-4 weeks before the marathon. (I read somewhere that the long run should not take more than 3 hours and if it would to split the run into a two shorter runs in the morning and evening. That said, my longest runs typically take about 4 hours for 30-32 km so I ignore this piece of advice myself.)

Most of the time you are only being asked to run 2 days a week. Subject to how you feel and how confident you are about avoiding injury you might want to run three days a week by adding a short easy run on Monday (like they have for weeks 1-4). A day a week of reasonably cross training (say 40-60 minutes of biking) would also be a good addition. Again, avoiding burn out and injury are the number one priorities. If it gets too much you could try alternating a third run one week with a cross training session the following week?

The good thing is that you are already up to a long run of 12 miles. For the next couple of weeks, you may want to think about alternating 12 and 10 mile runs on Saturdays while concentrating on getting in some shorter and less demanding (but slightly quicker) mid week runs and cross training sessions. This should reduce the risk of putting too much stress on your body in a short space of time. I think you will have time to get the long run up to 18 miles or even a bit better after that.

Cheers
Simon

Carl's Progress Thanks again Ally. Good luck with the jogging. I thought I would show you my progress, see the chart below. I am CPH and we use the arithmetic average of the 10 day and 4 day moving average for smoothing purposes. 2003 was our best year; hence we use it for comparison purposes. We always get quicker as the year progresses after the summer break and when soccer starts in April and slow down somewhat when the weather gets warmer and the jogs less frequent!

Good luck in the marathon.

Carl Hanich

As for the training, a wee cock-up yesterday (14th Aug 2006) but I was bright enough to stop running & walk home. What happened was that when landing my right foot, my right knee felt sore. I did stop, walked for a while & then had a few jogging steps. The knee was OKish but I decided to stop running & walk home however a neighbour drove passed me & stopped & offered me a lift. I haven't run tonight but my knee is fine.

Good luck with the knee. I have stopped running at the moment as I am having “keyhole” surgery on my knee in October. You must also really be losing weight with all that running! But watch your knee. All that jogging on hard surfaces may be having an impact. Make sure you can bend your right knee completely without there being a sharp pain! If unsure bend the left knee and feel the difference.

Carl

Good luck with all that running. I choose to put a bike and am pumping away on it.
Dax Gorham

Good luck, Ally! Hang in there... I know you can make it! : )

Later,
Greg Pierce.

Good Luck!

Cheers,
Jonathan Langman

> Today I ran for 12 miles & it took 3 hrs 37 mins

Was that steady speed (or close to steady, it usually slows towards the end, but did you notice any dramatic change of pace)?

> So currently I'm looking to run in the Dublin Marathon (30th October) however I'm aware that the time between now & then is 21 weeks & the training programmes I've read is quite intense. In case you're wondering, no I'm not making up possible excuses just simply stating that I know my training has only just started & that might not be long enough for me to finish a marathon.

Yep, I was wondering about that - originally you set your target for the London Marathon *next* year... knowing your starting shape next October looks pretty close. Then again, there's the issue of keeping up motivation for a year without any action, so you might also consider trying half-marathon in Dublin (unless of course you really think you will be up for the whole length).

Lasse Kaihlavirta

> Yes I did notice a change in pace. It would have started at about 8 to 9 miles. Well maybe the word 'pace' is only used based on it slowing due to part of my brain saying my legs are sore, give up whereas the other part of my brain says keep running.

Did it actually affect your pace (you would of course have to be following your intermediate times and know every mile of your route to know this) or did it just feel like it? I don't know what kind of program you're following or if there's anyone to guide you with it, but I'd say you're as ready for the marathon as you'll ever be once you can go 20 miles at the same pace ( you can't really push it further, after 20 miles, or "the wall", it is just a matter of dealing with it). Your overall pace is still quite slow (I think I could walk 12 miles in 3 hours and three quarters), but looks to me that after only one month of training your development is quite promising. How well do you recover from these long jongs?

> As you mentioned about possible motivation based on London being 11 months ago whereas Dublin is 4 months, I think I'm fine with all that. Going back to what happened to me in 1999, motivation isn't a problem. If you don't know what happened in 1999,

Ouch, no, I didn't know any of that. You still write better than Pete :)
And... now, let's see where that puts me... oh yes, that would be "someone who lost a Diplomacy game to a lobotomized Scotsman" category. Yay.

Lasse

By the way, on an historical note, the messenger who brought back news of victory from the Battle of Marathon had just enough time to say "We Won!" before having a heart-attack and promptly dropped dead.

History does not record if anyone asked "What did he say?"

Just go easy on the jogging. Its incredibly bad for you.

Best wishes,

Paul Marlow

good luck with the running...

Rick Powell

Dude, do the marathon. Just start with walking, find some people that can support you in doing it, there are heaps of running groups around.
As the Nike ad says, just do it!
I've been getting more into running. In my present job I put nearly 15 kilos on to 92kgs. At present I'm back to 83 but still have a few more to go, I'm slightly shorter than you are!
I'm now up to running 5 kms but hope to go a little more each week. My dream is the Sydney City to Surf, which is only 11 kms but with some killer hills. The Sydney marathon just seems like too much!
So I'm happy to offer some encouragement to get going at the running, from far away!

Sally Jagelman

I think it is great that you have given up smoking and are attempting to run a marathon. My mum ran the London marathon about 4 years ago and if you still have a burning desire to run it then there are two paths you can take. Firstly (and this is what my mum did) was to go to a charity (a big one such as the NSPCC) and ask for a place in return for raising capital for them. I think my mum had to manage £3000 which I know is a lot of money, but with people chipping in all the time its not so hard.

The second route may take a little longer. If you apply just to run the marathon, not under the banner of a charity then its a little harder. If you apply 4 years in a row and fail, then on the 5th year they have to accept you. So if you dont think your up for the London marathon yet, keep applying and you will get a place in 5 years time.

I wish you the best of luck for the Dublin marathon.

Regards
Ryan Kenny

I ran a marathon many years ago (Glasgow 1984) and so I still remember how much time and effort is required in training and commitment to finish it successfully (i.e. without an oxygen mask and a defibrillator).

I wish you all the very best with your venture and I am sure the people of Dublin will be just as enthusiastic as the people of Glasgow were.

Enjoy it.
Jim O'Neil

Good luck in the upcoming marathon. I read through your training exploits with interest because I also took up jogging (short distance) and basketball in response to my weight management. I am 6'5" tall and at the time weighed 275 pounds. I've always been a "big guy" but didn't like my health situation and vowed to change it. I didn't think much about it at the time, but I wish I had chronicled my journey as you did. I look back at pictures and can see a noticeable difference. It's been over a year and I'm eating much more healthy food and in healthy portions, and I'm down to 225 pounds (and though I'm still a "big guy" I'm looking quite trim I should say!)

I feel a great sense of accomplishment when I think about what I did and what could have happened if I didn't make a change. I see that you have a son, so that should make you feel all the more accomplished. Again, good luck!

Josh Ellery

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